Pride parades bring to mind images of leather, chains, breasts, tacky outfits, skin, buttocks, and raw sexuality. Chuck in the odd rainbow flag and you have the classic image of pride parades throughout the world.
It could just be a case of selective media coverage, with editors and media bosses opting for colourful, naked imagery over snaps of fully-clothed GLBT families waving rainbow flags, but it’s that public perception that we really need to watch. Perception is so, so powerful.
Auckland Super City candidate Simon Prast says that one of his goals for the city, should he be successful, is to bring back the infamous HERO parade that last took place in 2001. But is that really a good idea?
In our opinion, bringing back such a parade would do more harm than good. Sure, it’s an amazingly liberating and attention-grabbing thing to do, but does New Zealand really need to take a step back in time to the days where GLBT people are summed up by images of raw, naked sexuality bound in leather? Or do we want to be seen as loving, living human beings who hold down the same jobs and experience the same ups and downs as everyone else?
It’s clear to see why such displays worked, and why there was a definite need. Gay liberation started in the late 60s with the famous Stonewall riots, and GLBT people of the time went all-out to show the world that we are here, and we are here to stay. This gave rise to the sexual liberation and freedom that dominates the imagery of pride parades to this day. But we really feel that times have changed, and such imagery now does more bad than good.
We know it doesn’t sound very exciting, but why not ditch the nudity and embrace an image which better encapsulates our varied community as real, normal, civil human beings who just happen to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual?
And before a bunch of you claim that we’re just conservative bigots like Brian Tamaki and every other fundamentalist anti-gay, just hear us out.
Why not celebrate our successes in work, in love, in art, in family, in each other, with a little bit of dignity and respect for ourselves and for the rest of the world, who may not want to see anyone, let alone two men or two women, walking nearly naked down main street with their buttocks or breasts exposed while wearing dildos or nipple clamps and a rainbow flag? That’s the sort of pride parade we’d be proud of.
Aaron and Andy, on top of running this amazing website (and many other things!), are also members of the executive team that produces Wellington’s largest annual GLBT events including Out in the Square and Proud (Wellington’s pride festival). They haven’t organised a pride parade yet, but watch this space!
Totally agreed. Gay pride needs to move into the 21st century.
Disagree. Totally.
I want to marry that big-boobed, pink haired pride-goer.
Sometimes maybe it does look a bit naff. But I sure as heck would like to go to one at some point in my life.
But that is a good point made, can’t we just show our “pride” in everyday life with what we do
nice post. thanks.
Actually comments like this don’t phase me. Instead of arguing serious point’s you will instead point out character flaws.
Interesting though that someone could feel embarrassed to be a gay man though…
Um, why did you give ‘points’ an apostrophe?
Because i have bad grammer…. you need to ask?
you ruin the gay scene gummy/aidan/trash. I was told before i moved here that you were not to be trusted and that you were a con that uses your friends generosity for your own unemployed game
I ruin the gay scene? WOW thank you – i had no idea i was that powerful!!!
As Aaron and Andy said, Keep this on topic – I’m stating my opinions on this story, not Gummy Sue!
As intriguing as she is lets try resisting the urge of making it all about her!
Con artist? Thats ironic! I wonder why i still have friends if that is the case!!!
because they feel sorry for you for being such a tragic waste of space, and yeah you still have a few “friends” but they arent worth knowing if they are mates of yours freak!!
wow clever queen
Let’s try and keep on topic thx.
I totally agree that pride parades show the wrong side of our characters.
I remember when I was younger, on the verge of coming out and I saw a parade like this on the TV, hardly the time to turn around to your mum and tell her your one of “them”. It made me afraid of what people would think of me, and more to the point, alienated me from my true feelings inside, I wasn’t one of “them”, so I kept it in for a long time. People always comment that being gay is filthy, but why do they think its filthy?? Because its shoved in their faces as such an extreme and sexually overt activity such as a “Sex Parade”. Its not a celebration anymore, its alienation.
We need a parade led by people we look up to in the community – like our gay Olympians, politicians, singers, actors, teachers, parents and youth to show the world that we are human, we can be amazing people and not just filthy hook up, public blow job, dildo, flesh jack sex crazed maniacs.
I guess in that case it just depends if you care what other people think of you. I for one don’t really care about what people think of me in the slightist (we all know that).
I’m not here to discredit anyone’s opinion and i don’t expect anyone to do that of my opinion’s either.
I was just merely stating that i disagree with this story. My opinion.
strange – lots of people say they don’t care what other people think of them.. most of the time thou that is just a front for what they really feel.
If i cared what people thought of me then i’d be a very confused person!
fuk off, hetronormative shit is shoved into our face everyday
I haven’t been to any gay pride parades at all.
I think for New Zealand, Hero was organised for a reason, and it has served it’s purpose.
Even Sydney Mardi Gras by the sounds of it has evolved over the years from what it originally started out as.
I think if New Zealand were to have another parade, to make it relevant, not about scandal. Safe sex, the people in our community, politicians, singers, writers, artists, entertainers and celebrate our diversity in a respectful way.
I’m not against a bit of cock, tit & ass, but there is a time and place for that.
Yeah i kind of agree with that too – it would just be a shame if people forgot why pride festivals exist in the first place.
homosexuals in NZ these days don’t really know how hard it was back then. Pride festivals etc are a reminder and an exhibition on how things came to be.
Just my humble opinion aye.
Totally agree that whatever is done it should promote “safe sex” – doubt anyone would argue that!
Last i heard, there was a march organized for the 2011 Out-games??? Is it still happening or not??? Anyone know?
Pride festivals weren’t about sex marches, they were about normal guys holding hands with other guys and holding banners! Not flashing their arses out. They’ve now turned into nothing more than a spectacle for the straights.
why do you want to be called Aidan Jarvis now? Is it because the name Aidan Kingsley Olson was so hated you thought a new name would be needed?
LOL – we will go with that
People, don’t fuel Aidan on. This site has been great for the last month or so with no Aidan content so let’s keep it this way. Most people just ignore his comments on this site – you should too.
Hmmmm encourge no comments by commenting? if you read back, everyone is just responding to my statements of disagreeing with this story. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and i was just stating my opinions. now that thats done it’s all good
Everyone should lighten up a bit – especially you Daniel 
The article is confusing to me, The purpose seems to be to stimulate some debate so it succeeds there.
The very act of having parade would suggests there is something to celebrate other than the fact that most gays are ordinary people doing ordinary things. Is there a point of difference we are trying to celebrate and what would it be? Society is mix of different people doing ordinary and extra ordinary things.
The gay fairs I have seen in Wellington so far seem be focused as a family day out, namely as day out that is suitable for gays and lesbians to bring children along to, and some competitions are organised for them.
Wellington is quite small so this format may well be suitable to continue with.
I love the you tube clips which feature the activities which make the folsom fair.
There are spaces and activities which would be adult only but which celebrate the diversity found in society at large. It just seems a section of the gay community chooses to celebrate the diversity in a way not all of society might be comfortable with, even though many of the things portrayed at folsom are enjoyed by gay or straight people.
Hope this lecture has not been too long for anyones attention span,
I have more respect for Boobs on Bikes. At least that outfit has integrity in that it doesn’t presume to “represent” any community other than porn consumers.
Pride Marches were political statements. They had there place and they achieved much. Now however they’ve been highjacked by the lowest common denominator in the gay community; sex crazed exhibitionists. And, my lord, aren’t they all so predictable and downright boring. I attended the Sydney mardi gras around 2001 and, at least amongst the leather and lycra, that had floats that showed creativity and effort.
Pride Parades do more damage than good: for many people this will be their only image of gay people. Perhaps a parade as you’ve suggested would be building on the history of Pride Parades as political statements by saying we’re not “the other” and that we are living breathing people who are do are best to aspire and help ourselves and the wider community.
Yes it’s all goody two-shoes, but wouldn’t that be a proverbial two fingers salute to “Bishop” [sic] Tamaki.
I take pride in being QUEER & outrageous, thanks.
The entire point comes down to BEING dis-respectable. Respectability is a product of class, and privilege generally. It’s now okay largely to be gay… as long as you’re white and educated. Is it acceptable to be a tranny?
I don’t take pride in assimilation, and I don’t have any corporate pride (such as is in Sydney). I do have pride in having a healthy suspicion of “respectability”.
I expected more from you Aaron and Andy.
Thanks, but actually I do take pride in being QUEER (& outrageous at times). To be queer is to be opposed to forms of respectability/dis-respectability generally, it is to recognise that respectability is really just a cover for class and privilege in society.
Law reforms have assimilated a lot of us white, educated gay men… We still face discrimination, but we get by rather well. How about those trannies?
I have nothing wrong with family events, like we see at out in the square. I don’t cringe when I see respectable, conventional gay families.
It’s funny, how many of us cringe by the drag shows we see at Ivy? (well, sometimes their not of good production value, but that aside…) It’s only when we have those heterosexuals judging us that we get rather nervous.
The “cringe” is in fact a product of shame, homophobia.
To be queer is to see through the farce of respectability, as a product of racism, patriarchy and capitalism generally.
Aaron and Andy, you let me down.
sorry for the double post.
You should be.
This paragraph is telling, “We know it doesn’t sound very exciting, but why not ditch the nudity and embrace an image which better encapsulates our varied community as real, normal, civil human beings who just happen to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual?”
Normal? Interesting choice of words. So there are RIGHT (normal, natural) forms of sexuality and everything which most of heterosexual society isn’t is abnormal (deviant, clinical perhaps)?
Thanks for your thought-out and reasoned responses, Comrade Jason.
We’re happy to be gay — in fact the both of us have reached the point where we are shocked when people say they never knew, or when people don’t seem to ‘get it’ instantly.
But we’re not queer, which has taken on a different meaning lately. To be queer is to be deviant, to be outrageous, to be shocking for the sake of being shocking, and most definitely it is about NOT fitting in.
We see this movement as counter-productive to our plight. We want equal rights. We want to be able to do what everyone else can. We don’t want to feel like second-class citizens anymore.
The new ‘queer’ movement brings back the ‘us and them’ mentality. It intrinsically aims to stand out and be apart. It says ‘we don’t want to be like you’, and ‘you are boring’.
It takes the whole gay rights movement backwards, in our opinions.
Being gay and being queer are now completely different things.
*sigh* it all makes me a bit sad too.
I don’t think anyone should have to make an effort to be different to rub it in anyone’s faces.
However when I think about being queer it is about being different. I’m not making an effort of it though. Sometimes I’d rather not people look at me funny for doing something that is completely normal for me.
Perhaps it would be nice if we were all just treated as individuals who all had the same rights.
1. “But we’re not queer, which has taken on a different meaning lately. To be queer is to be deviant, to be outrageous, to be shocking for the sake of being shocking, and most definitely it is about NOT fitting in.” -A&A
I couldn’t dis-agree more with your conception of queer as being deviant and outrages for the sake of not fitting in. There is attention seeking, and then there is being oneself, to echo Stephen. People who are queer don’t feel they fit into the hetero-normative boundaries of gender (or sexuality). I would say, extensions have been made to include people practising some TYPES of gay-love as being “real, normal, civil human beings” to quote A&A again (incidentally, this is one of the most offensive things I’ve ever read, and to have it being read on a gay website is the utmost of disgusting). These types of gay-love which are now viewed as legitimate, or acceptable by hetero-normative society are now seeking to “sell its birthright for a mess of pottage”. The problem is NOT that queers are attention-seeking, but rather that hetero-normative society still views them as fake, abnormal, mentally deformed degenerates. Pride marches are a way of affirming ourselves, our queerdom.
2. “We see this movement as counter-productive to our plight. We want equal rights. We want to be able to do what everyone else can. We don’t want to feel like second-class citizens anymore.” -A&A
Of course “our” is as exclusive as it is inclusive. It is not so much that you want everyone to enjoy equal rights as you want to share the same position of privilege in hetero-normative society. I think everyone SHOULD have equal rights, the right to express themselves unself-consciously, un-aware of your “cringe”.
3. “The new ‘queer’ movement brings back the ‘us and them’ mentality. It intrinsically aims to stand out and be apart. It says ‘we don’t want to be like you’, and ‘you are boring’.” -A&A.
The entire article runs along the same argument as “I don’t mind people being gay, I just wish they wouldn’t push it in our faces”. It really shouldn’t take too much thought to see through this as what it is. Have a read of A Single Man by Isherwood and focus in on the diatribe during the lecture on Huxley if you can’t figure it out yourself. All minorities pose a threat to a majority and they will do what they can to protect their position of privilege. To not recognise this fact is to ignore reality and live in a liberal fantasy. And honestly, I have much better fantasies I’d rather indulge in.
I think you’re reading too far into it. The article is about nudity in gay pride parades. The question posed is: ‘Why do nudity and fetishes play a part in gay pride parades?’ This is a simple question, one which has more to do with the way our community is seen, as as whole, rather than trying to shove our community into the control of a hetero-normative society.
I think you’ve been reading too much (pun intended) into this situation.
Stop thinking that any one who isn’t outrageous, is somehow selling their souls and not being true to themselves.
I am happily gay , out and proud; I am also happily a respectable professional. I don’t live in some gay ghetto, nor do I live in the closet. I quite capably negotiate both gay and “normal” worlds, and feel the richer for it. Dare I say, being able to negotiate both worlds takes a lot more effort than consigning oneself to a gay ghetto.
Some of us are keen for more emphasis on “assimilation” (as you call it) because it helps us secure the position of the GLBT community. . We can only hold on to our rights (such as civil unions, anti discrimination etc) if we make sure that the majority understand we are human beings with whom they share so much in common.
Being outrageous just isolates you. You can rail about how society is so wrong and unjust in isolating outrageous people. But it’s a fact. Being isolated most usually means that you reduces your ability to do good and to be fully effective in society.
That is why I — along with quite a few GLBT people I know — are making an effort to succeed in “normal” people’s fields: to make a difference, and to avoid the possibility of our community ever having to deal with discrimination and second class citizenship again. That is why, I’d just like u to focus less on sexual obsessions and exhibitionism, and make an effort to show ourselves, those wondering struggling to understand their sexuality, and the wider society that GLBT people cover the full range of societal and occupational groups.
But in saying that, I don’t knock your right to be outrageous, different or downright offensive. I have no problem with drag acts. But I do have a problem with people trying to pass off that sexual obsession, drag acts, are all it means to be gay.
One final thing: I’m getting so sick of this racist and sexist b/s of “that’s so male and white”. Yep, I’m belong to both of groups. Just like being gay, I can’t help it: I was born that way.
So in short, practice what you preach. Just as you resent peoples’ efforts to shove you in some pigeonhole, so too people like me resent you trying to do the same just because we take a different path.
Just on that “male & white” thing. We do live in a somewhat patriarchal society. Women on average get paid 12% less than men holding the same position.
And you’ll find that it was white male who tried to kill of many cultures, held ownership of people of different ethnicities and held them back from education and good health.
Sure that wasn’t you but as a general comment (which yes does kinda add to it being discrimination) white male are kinda responsible for a lot of shit that went down.
Just saying.
youll find it was a small percentage of white males that were calling the shots, a SMALL percentage, so stop stereotyping all white males with this sort of notion.
Yeah, people like Stephii would have u believe that all white males are stone mason’s with a trust fund driving round in Merc’s with money stolen from the middle east with George W Bush on speed dial.
Get real Stephii, like the above poster pointed out that its a small percentile of white men that are like that!
have u ever heard of queen victoria? many lands were colonized and ruined under her rule.
And the patriarchal men back in the days that plundered colonized lands, no doubt had wives, these wives didn’t turn down any of the benefits and I bet were more than happy to except them.
So get off your high horse, you come across as racist and sexist with such a lineal view that you apply to all men
Stamp out sex. Remove all sexual references from gay community events. What we need is community standards. In fact gay people should stop having sex altogether.
Is gay something worth being if it means being assimilated into an order of systematic exploitation? I think, Alex, that people in various gay/queer lib groups have rejected “respectable professional” existences because it’s ideas of “respectability” and “professionalism” that uphold the existing order which served to quash “alternative” sexualities to begin with. This doesn’t mean you’re wrong for being a respectable professional, but if you wanted things to change I think you’d be doing more.
And Aaron and Andy – if you’re interested in gay “rights” then maybe this line does take things backwards, because it stands against the way things work at the moment. But if it’s actual *liberation* you’re after, resistance and difference is the only way to go.
I remember a few years ago chairing one of the talks at the History of Homosexuality in New Zealand Conference run by the Lesbian and Gay Archives of New Zealand (LAGANZ) where the speaker was an older gent all decked out in suit and tie and looking all regal and distinguished. He was Henare Te Ua – veteran radio broadcaster as well as M?ori cultural advisor to the New Zealand Aids Foundation. He began his talk in a serene, gentile and beautiful tone but the words that came out of this 70+ year old’s mouth totally blew me away even though I was supposed to be the equally calm and collect chair?!
He said ‘my earliest memory of engaging in a homosexual act takes me back to my childhood days of school, down on my knees devouring with eager and titilating delight, the groin of fellow schoolboy chum’ and from there on his whole talk had heaps more expletives and sodomy type stuff.
What he then conveyed to the whole conference was the notion of a homosexual narrative much like the heterosexual narrative but instead of being characterised by words like wedding or marriage etc, it would feature our own ‘unique’ words, and then went on to tell us what some of them are! It was great stuff and totally changed the way I viewed the world – no longer squimish around drag queens, trannies or even leathermen, and a little nonchalant when hearing.
Totally understand how some of the gay community are feeling but the fact remains that it takes a community of people to determine community values – including their narrative, rather than the dissention of a small few. I totally understand members of the gay community wanting ‘equality’ but am not sure about those using heterosexual social norms, morals or conventions as the measure, and belittling those ones inherent in just about every glbt community around the world?!
Henare Te Ua’s talk ended up a standing ovation with tears streaming down everyone’s face – it was unreal. I was pretty moved myself because it normalised my own lifestyle and worldview as a homosexual, alongside that of heterosexuals.
So don’t forget Hamish’s little afternoon tea today. Hope to see you all there with your questions (and abuse)….hahahhaa
^ you would never turn up to anything that doesnt involve going to your desk and turning on your 7 year old pc and dialing up for a connection